Hairdo or MasterMind

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Chris Dee.gothampm	Hairdo or MasterMind		Lead	[-]
Posts: 3928 07/09/02 16:58 Gothamite	Tags : None To pass the time between fics, I wonder what everyone thinks about Ra's performance in this latest outing. Before KNIGHTLIFE he'd certainly lived down to Selina's assessment of an overrated hairdo. This really seemed to bother some folks. Those readers should be glad to see Ra's getting his swing back now that his hormones have stabilized after that last pitdip, but I'm wondering which versions y'all prefer? On a broader plane, there have been quite a few spins like this throughout the series, mostly because I like challenging expectations. Have any in particular struck anybody as especially right or wrong?
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Allaine	Re: Hairdo or MasterMind	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1779 07/09/02 20:00	Hmmmmm. I've probably already discussed this topic with you ad nauseaum by now, but what the hell? Personally, I got to know Ra's from the animated series, (hey, David Warner does a ripping good bad guy's voice - it's like he's claimed Tim Curry's championship belt) and only later read up on his earlier appearances in the comic books. The few episodes of his were some of my favorites, because they evoked a real Indiana Jones quality in the series, and because he was a villain who operated on such a grand scale. (And let's face it - the Will Smith movie Wild Wild West borrowed as much from the Ra's flashback episode "Showdown" as it did from the great old Robert Conrad show. I mean, madman with giant mechanical ship, way ahead of its time, attacks Promontory Peak right when they're about to nail the golden spike, only to be defeated by a stowaway. And that flying bicycle Kevin Kline has - it's the same one Ra's escapes in.) Anyway, he was always a favorite villain of mine. Now, having read your stories, Chris, as well as your encounter with him on his little Greek island in the RPG, I think you have a very good take on his character and his personality, especially his repressed side. But I'm glad to see him enjoying a bit of a revival here. His plan for Dick was very sneaky. I mean, sure, in the long run, he may not be any more intelligent or cunning than the deadliest of the other Rogues, but he does have a few things that make up for it: he's really ambitious, aiming for the world where the others focus on Gotham; he has that massive organization and money and fingers everywhere; and when the Joker has a plan, people in Gotham hide. When Ra's has a plan, is anyone really safe? That being said, for all the times I loved Talia on B:TAS, you have skewered her so effectively in your series, and I would love for you to continue doing so in the future. Smashing, baby. Sincerely, Allaine
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Unregistered(d)	Re: Hairdo or MasterMind	#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 0 07/09/02 21:58	Ra's Al Ghul as a mastermind works for me. When Ra's first came on the scene in the 1970s, I really didn't care for him. He was more like a "Dark Shadows" type of character whose motivation I couldn't quite grasp. Today's Ra's has evolved into more of terrorist with a bit of horror fic type slant to him. I still tend to think of him much as I do Dracula. Ra's is far from being my favorite villian but he has his place in the Bat universe now. He's been around for 30 years. B
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Orion of New Genesis	Re: Hairdo or MasterMind	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 122 07/10/02 17:40	I'm all for a little of both. The whole second-Oracle-in-Gotham plot worked extremely well, on so many levels, that I'd happily see more of the same. Ra's was intended as a mastermind, so by all means let's have more diabolical plans in the best Evil Overlord tradition. And, since I have a fondness for procedural stories, seeing how the Bat-clan (and assorted friends and allies; I do want to see Dinah take her revenge on Ra's for the poetry... ) detect and deal with said plans is something that would be evry welcome. On the other hand, Ra's as fall guy as in Plan 9 was extremely funny, and it wouldn't hurt to keep a light touch there as well -- particularly when the demon-spawn is involved. And, in all fairness to Selina, if she regards him as a lightweight (to say nothing of Talia, and saying nothing about her is probably wise ), there's got to be something in that... Moira and Omar are a nice bridge between the two extremes, so you could do just about anything you like, Chris, just so long as you do it! ---- Ping! Ping! Ping! -- Mother Box She's such a chatterbox, sometimes...
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Chris Dee.gothampm	Re: Hairdo or MasterMind	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3928 07/11/02 17:01 Gothamite	*Quote:* to say nothing of Talia, and saying nothing about her is probably wise Certainly all right thinking cat-fans would go along with that statement, Orion, but y'know, What's New Pussycat is a gossip-fic, so what are the chances that the demonspawn's name will remain unspoken.
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Unregistered(d)	Hairdo or Mastermind	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 0 07/31/02 08:03	People... 'Mind you telling me what the hell is a "hairdo"? I'm sorry my native language is not English, so I humbly ask for someone's kind explanation. As for if I prefere the comical Ra's or the serious one... Let me tell, I love Ra's because he summons the east spirit. I really hate Thalia, but... To have the father put up with the doughter... I do like the serious Ra's but the so called "hairdo" made me laugh so much that for was caught out of breath. One more question sails in my head... What do you pretend to do with Thalia and Bruce's son, Ibn Al'xufach? He apears in the series "Kingdom Come" as the heir of Ra's Al Ghul. Do plan to ignore his existence? Sorry if trouble you. Pandora de Romanus
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Unregistered(d)	Re: Hairdo or Mastermind	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 0 07/31/02 16:17	Oh, I'll take a stab at an excellent question. "Hairdo," of course, is an American slang term that is used in a derogatory manner toward someone. Ra's Al-Ghul, by American standards, has very funny hair. Especially the wisps of hair on his face. But the stuff on top of his head is seen as a little odd, as well. This coupled with his arrogant attiude in which he thinks he is superior -- people laugh at his superiority because he can't even get a decent haircut. It's a concept rather than something that has a true definition. I 'd love to hear someone define what "hairdo" means in regards to Ra's. B
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Allaine	Re: Hairdo or Mastermind	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1779 07/31/02 18:02	While we're talking about him, if the Toon Network's schedule is still accurate, Ra's and Talia's one appearance on Batman Beyond, "Out of the Past", is on today at 5 PM EST. I didn't even KNOW he appeared on BB until a week or so ago, and after I complained all this time that they were idiots not to use him, seeing as how he's one of the few present-day Rogues who would still be in action in the future smacks forehead Sincerely, Allaine
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Catwoman Meow	Re: Hairdo or Mastermind	#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6453 07/31/02 18:20 Feline Fatale	If it's the episode I think it is - and if it's the only one they're in it must be, cause I haven't seen many and have heard of even less, but I BELIEVE (90% sure), it begins with Terry and Bruce attending "Batman the Musical" - a delicious slam at this intensely bizarre idea a couple "anything Disney does Warner Brothers can do" rocketscientists at the WB thinktank came up with.
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Unregistered(d)	Life is Cruel	#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 0 08/01/02 15:26	Thanks, B. A real gentleman is what you are. Nice explanation. About BB, Life is Cruel... The Japanese TV doesn't have it. It has no Batman... Can you believe it? Not even the old ones... And there is no comics in Japan... Not that I found... But I have "anime" on the TV and "mangas" in the bookstores... Well, we can't have everything. Pandora de Romanus
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Chris Dee.gothampm	Re: Life is Cruel	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3928 08/01/02 21:54 Gothamite	Hi, I'm awfully glad conversation continued here because somehow, Pandora, I apologize, I completely missed your original questions, and even when B answered it I thought he was talking about hairdos generally, not responding to a specific question. Okay, in the sense I apply it to Ra's, a hairdo is someone who only has some superficial quality to let them claim a position, but has no substance. There are certain rock stars who have a dynamic look, but little MUSICAL talent There are politicians who look great with their snappy sound bytes on the 6:00 news, but have no ability to govern. Ra's - in Joker's and Selina's opinion (and in mine) coasts on the reputation of being the big bad in batdom, but can point to very little actual achievement to back up the claim. Joker revillainized Catty precrisis, he shot Dick/Robin, killed Jason Todd/Robin, he paralyzed Barbara Gordon, in The Nail he killed Robin & Batgirl. When there's a serious blow to be dealt to Batman, he's the one writer after writer turns to. He was created by Bob Kane, he's present in Batman #1. He was the villain in the first Batman movie for a reason. Ra's, on the other hand, is a formidable bad guy...why exactly? Because he SAYS he is? Because Denny O'Neill tells us he is? That's not a good enough reason. And notice these are same arguements applied elsewhere to Talia as B's "true love" SHE says she is. (And DENNY tries to make the arguement from time to time.) But even in fiction, SAYING it seldom makes it so. Okay then, so much for hairdos. So much for the demonspawn-spawn. Kingdom Come, where Ibn Al'xufach appears is an ElseWorld and Son of the Demon where he was presumably conceived is also an ElseWorld. In otherwords, they're not even in DC's continuity. However let's say they were. For that would give me reason to repeat the founding principle of Cat-Tales: what you read in the comics is wrong. It is a strange tabloid version of what really happens in these characters lives. In the comics DC tells us Dinah was infatuated with Ra's al Guhl. In Cat-Tales that's what the Gotham Post reports, and they even run a picture taken right from one of DC's covers - but we learn the truth. It was HE who was stuck on HER. So no, in my world Ibn Al'xufach doesn't exist and isn't likely to.
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Unregistered(d)	That's why I love you	#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 0 08/02/02 05:55	Chris dee... That's why I love you. You are completly right! Things are different, and I say: I like more your version of it. Sorry if I made you angry. I didn't want any trouble.
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Chris Dee.gothampm	Re: That's why I love you	#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3928 08/02/02 15:50 Gothamite	Heavens darliln, I'm not angry. I love discussing this stuff. :) After Nocturna, I'm the Cat-talesian most in love with the sound of my own voice.
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Allaine	The last animated take on Ra's	#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1779 08/11/02 01:22	Having finally seen Batman Beyond's take on Ra's al-Ghul and Talia in "Out of the Past", I was left to re-analyze my thoughts on these two. As I mentioned before, I first got to know these two from the cartoons, and only later found their older comic appearances. So my like/dislike of them has always, in some part, been influenced by my first impressions, ie the BTAS eps. "OotP", especially the second half, is a pretty disturbing episode, with a surprise twist that dropped my jaw. There are also a few interesting moments at the end, when Bruce puts Talia's picture with his other past relationships (Selina, Barbara, Zatanna, Lois) and refers to her as "Beloved". I'll never look at her the same way after Cat-Tales, but this episode perfectly detailed the cartoon's sympathetic view of her - utterly unable to choose between the two men tearing her apart . . . she helps Batman to fight her father in the "near apocalypse of 2009", and then makes the ultimate sacrifice FOR her father (speaking of impressions, I'll never think of Ra's the same way again after THIS episode). I always thought that, if only Ra's could be put out of the way permanently (and I mean, forever), it would make life a lot easier for her (think "Avatar", when she thought he was dead and told Bruce how she was using his organization for pro-environment efforts, only taking a much more gradualistic approach). Her fatal weakness will always be this inability to choose - father, who taught her to revolve her world around his, and lover, who she evidently latched onto in an attempt to break free. Sigh. (Still, gotta love David Warner's voice-over work ) Sincerely, Allaine
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Chris Dee.gothampm	Re: The last animated take on Ra's	#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3928 08/12/02 20:03 Gothamite	To be fair, Allaine, I'd say the animated series is a pretty fair picture. Don't know about T's first appearance, but her second, and Ra's introduction is right out of O'Neil. B & T met on some adventure where T was an agent for her father, whom we never saw - and in who's interests she screwed B over in the end. Next we see, Dick is kidnapped, Ra's shows up with Ubu saying his daughter has also been kidnapped, and it turns out to be a test cause T liked what she saw before in the adventure with B and told Daddy she wanted him. After that, it's also pretty much exactly what you see in the cartoon. T shows up swearing either her father is dead or they've parted company and she's using his resources for good - and it turns out (SURPRISE) she's still working for Daddy and it's all a big scheme to make the Detective see the role he must inevitably play in perpetuating my dynasty, yadda yadda yadda... T can be counted on, pretty uniformally, to a) give B the information he wants about her father's plan/location thereby leading him INTO the trap b) then helping him escape from the trap right up until he catches her father when she c) turns on him to secure Daddy's escape. her fatal weakness is, indeed, her inability to finally make a choice, and personally, I think she's latched on to B as her romantic obsession because somehow, in her mind, he can make the choice for her.
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