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Orion of New Genesis
Gothamite
Posts: 84
(5/28/03 8:45 am)
A minor point of Demonic summoning lore...
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...which intrigues me in respect of its place in the Catverse -- and, for that matter, the DCU -- relates to how Etrigan returns to his "prison", voluntarily or otherwise.

I know that things like Etrigan's personality and motivation have changed a lot since the original Jack Kirby concept, and that bits and pieces of the relationship between Jason and the Demon have varied wildly over the years, but I'd be interested to know if:

i) the Jason/Etrigan switch (in either direction) can still be forced on he/them by someone else repeating all or part of the relevant verse. I'd guess not, or why else would Batman (or Green Arrow) have to threaten Etrigan with fire extinguishers when all they need do to get rid of him is repeat two lines of magical poetry? And Jason, concerned about Etrigan getting out of control, would surely tell Bruce, at least -- unless magical talent is necessary...?

ii) there are still other ways of freeing Etrigan, such as the Yarva demonicus Etrigan "spell" introduced in the 80s Demon series that featured some very good, powerfully atmospheric art by (I think) Don Newton -- until he was replaced by Steve Ditko, who was okay, but not as good for that subject.

So, Chris and those who keep up with this aspect of the DCU, how does it work these days, both in the Catverse and the Gotham Post's peculiar view of the world?
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JasonBloodOfGotham
Something Wicked This Way Comes
Posts: 934
(5/28/03 12:11 pm)
Re: A minor point of Demonic summoning lore...
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*peeks into thread, looks at Chris's answer, nods*

Very good question, Orion, especially since as you have pointed out, "bits and pieces of the relationship between Jason and the Demon have varied wildly over the years."

(Give this man a prize for understatement of the year.)

Chris has pretty much answered definitively for Cattiverse; as for the world of the Gotham Post and the many other journalistic devices, some of more credibility and authenticity, and some of less:

Current consensus (current being the operative word there) seems to support that only myself, Jason Blood, can perform the chant to effect the change, and that only Etrigan may chant to once more switch places. For references we quote the Green Arrow you've already mentioned, as well as the recent Obsidian Age JLA arc, in which I was apparently the one who had to summon him.

Mind, these are but the two most recent appearances of the unique hybrid that is ourselves in the "news" papers, and many if not all prior tabloids seem to support anyone being able to effect the change. Pfft.

A note, here, that goes quite well with what Chris has pointed out about Cattiverse magic; the words of the changing chant vary. The structure of the chant usually remains the same, but there is both a long version (six lines) that recently appeared in the Cattiverse, and a short version, the two lines that you refer to. Minor phrasing changes I've used or seen have included, "rise that bastard Etrigan" and "gone from here o feeble man" etc etc.

In other words, it does indeed seem that the chant serves more as a focusing device for the concentration necessary to effect the change than as an actual word-by-word ritual, in which exact precision is necessary.

Hope that answered that. As for the "Yarva daemonicus Etriganus" spell (and other methods such as the Philosopher's Stone)-- very good point. As far as I know, in the Post-verse, this is still applicable, though I haven't seen its usage since the 90's DEMON series. It does make sense that it would best be performed by those with magical talent and skill, such as (the entirely unlamented) Miss Glenda Mark.

(Oh dear, my writer is injecting her personal opinion again. Damn her.)

One thing that must be kept in mind re: Post-verse appearances of Etrigan and myself is this: nobody has ever compiled a decent "rulebook" for us as in the case of the Bat-bible of Denny O' Neill. This gives every two-bit journalist, hack, and even the occasional legitimate scribe the permission to alter, distort, misquote, misportray, and generally screw with our history to their heart's content.

It's not easy being us.

One other point I had forgotten: just in case you're interested, the 80's miniseries had both art and writing by Matt Wagner, who also painted the cover to GA #6 as well as writing/pencilling issue #22 of the 90's DEMON series.