Cat-Tales 60: Don't Fear the Joker in Cat-Tales Forum

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Cat-Tales 60: Don't Fear the Joker

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Chris Dee	Cat-Tales 60: Don't Fear the Joker		Lead	[-]
Posts: 1154 01/20/10 13:20	A new tale begins: Scarecrow is the fear rogue. Everybody knows that. What if he realizes he's not the one they're afraid of? Chapter 1: Irene Adler -Chris Dee Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Superpowers corrupt... superbly. -Cat-Tales: Identity Element
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RKemp		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 01/20/10 14:51	This is an excellent opening, ma'am. I like how you referenced the recent Sherlock Holmes movie, especially given Bruce's history with him. Robert Downey Jr. made an excellent Holmes, and Irene Adler's actress, Rachel McAdams, would be a lovely Selina. She had a great combination of wit, class, playfulness, and deviousness. Spoiler [+] The part where she left him in the room, unable to reach the key right in front of him was classic. I have to admit, Scarecrow's scheme with the hand sanitizer was clever, in a chore-crime sort of way. The vicious cycle of the germophobia inspring use of the fear toxin-laced hand sanitizer was just twisted. Still, he needed that little wakeup call; he's been using it as a crutch for far too long. (Nolanverse's Scarecrow could use a similar epiphany. That would be an interesting sideplot if Mr. Nolan chooses to make a third Batman film.)
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BenRG	Chapter 1 - Irene Adler	#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 428 01/20/10 15:29	And we're off! Okay, first off, Chris, I love you for your comment about Bruce and Selina's current trip down De River Denial. It is interesting for a (semi-) outsider to note that they really do live like a married couple, less the rings and bit of paper from the Justice of the Peace. I suppose that the Rogues and the Capes would just shrug it off. In their life, who has the time or the inclination? However, it might be interesting to see what Bruce's alleged peers in the billionaire set think about it. Okay, I was put off the Holmes movie because, quite frankly, I worship Jeremy Brett's TV version of him and the current incarnation strikes me as a bit... sacrilegious. However, if Holmes and Alder are that Bruce and Selina, I'm going to have to give it a try. Shivers Man, that Marty guy's descent was pretty ugly. I have to admit that Scarecrow's skill with fear is quite brilliant in its twisted way. I wonder how long he had been working on those guys to get those results? Spoiler [+] I suspected from the first mention that Scarecrow was directly or indirectly behind those 'freebies', BTW. The easiest way to get toxin into the system is to have someone wash their hands with the stuff. Like I said, brilliant. Twisted but brilliant. On the flip side, screwing over the Russian and Irish mobs is asking for having your head to be put on a spike with your amputated 'assets' in your mouth. So, we can add egotistical and arrogant enough to consider himself above consequences to the list. If he is going after the Joker as your blurb in the new story notification suggests, that flaw could be deadly I love how Selina helped out with the interrogations. Bruce was right. That shape emerging from the shadows is not likely to be something someone recovering from Fear Toxin would be too happy to have to handle. That said, I think that Selina could do the 'I am the Shadow of Vengeance" thing just as well, just with a slightly more Bast-like level of malicious humour.The two of them really do make a great team. I wonder how Tim reacted when he realised that suddenly it was "Batman and Catwoman" and "The Robin and Batgirl" now. Okay, that ending really caught my attention. As has been so often said on this board... This cannot end well. BenRG's Rating: 8/10 ~~~~ They call me BenRG* But... I don't know why... ~~~*~
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OracleThunder		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6 01/20/10 16:07	Scarecrow taking lessons from Joker? This can go either two ways: 1) very dark as Crane kills a subway car of passengers in a sociopathic fit or 2) really funny as Crane's attempts to emulate the Clown Prince of Crime don't work the way they should.. I'll be happy with either. Love Selina getting Bruce out on a real date. So many couples stop doing that and then problems seem to rise. Crane's little germophobia stunt was done at a very good time though. People are still talking about swine flu where I work.
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ichigenka.gothampm		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 330 01/20/10 16:57	Great great start to this story arc. The movie thing was interesting, from all the other chaps i thought they went to d'Annunzio's pretty regularly. Suppose, just getting dinner is highly different than going on a date ;) Crane... What he doesn't realize that people fear Joker because of how unpredictable he could be. Of course the homicidal rampages are the start of it, but I submit this. What scarier? Joker with a gun in his hand or Joker saying with no obviously weapons saying, " Look you could use a laugh." Really fascinated on how this will play out. Great job Chris!
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Chris Dee	Sherlock Holmes clips	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1154 01/20/10 17:05	Alright, I think this will work.� For those who are not inclined to see the movie, we have a few of the pertinent clips, courtesy of Yahoo... Holmes Fighting
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Chris Dee	Irene	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1154 01/20/10 17:06	Introduction to Irene...
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Chris Dee	Re: Sherlock Holmes clips	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1154 01/20/10 17:07	Irene kicking some ass...
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stephensmat2		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1321 01/20/10 17:08	I love your little deconstruction of Sherlock Holmes. I haven't seen it myself, but it makes perfect sense that having Sherlock be an action star as well as the worlds greatest detective would make Selina more appreciative of him, purely as a character her boyfriend would like. And it makes sense that having Irene along, confounding him, helping him, rescuing him, and ultimately flummoxing him completely would make Bruce more appreciative of her, purely as a character he can enjoy in the stories. I also like how this series always sets itself in the 'real world' of sorts, by keeping up on current events. The swine flu fear is a pretty good pitch to hit. Joker is the one Rogue that hasn't become a parody of the comic book counterpart. Ivy is a whiny prima donna. Hatter is a gossip. Riddler is a purely mind-war opponent with little body count. Two-Face and Ivy sort of cancel each other out, and what Ivy doesn't defuse the coin can. Penguin is a nightclub owner. Clayface has more or less turned himself over to going Legit, after a fashion, and Scarecrow's epitaph in this series is how Selina put it wa-a-a-ay back: "It's not a vault, it's Crane: insert claw and pull." Selina's involvement in Batman's life has more or less neutralized a number of Rogues. Which is great, because this series is between the panels, so instead of a Villain of the week, we have this. And frankly, don't we all enjoy it more? But Joker is the exception to the rule. Joker is Loki, Chaos God. Selina can't sleep when it's Joker. She can sleep when her boyfriend and her social circle beat each other up. She can sit down with binoculars and watch when that happens. But Joker keeps her awake. Croc is tougher. Eddie is smarter. Scarecrow and Mr Freeze and Hatter have more insidious toys to use against him. Joker keeps her awake. What's scary about Joker is the way he acts. He's a clown? Clowns can be scary when they'll tell a joke and cut your throat in the same breath. So can mimes. Or puppy dogs. Or Superman. Or Alfred. If they started acting like Joker, people would cringe when they walked in. So this should be interesting. And in the middle of date night too.
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Chris Dee	Re: Sherlock Holmes clips	#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1154 01/20/10 17:08	Well, one of them is in over their head, yes.�
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Glitch2	Re: Sherlock Holmes clips	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 113 01/20/10 17:54	There are some good things that came out of that film. I'm going to hide my thought for those who haven't seen it yet and don't wish to be spoiled. Holmes and Watson being closer to the actual ages they should have been several years into their partnership (mid-late 30s). Watson being competent and intelligent, rather than uttering 'Brilliant, Holmes!' every time Holmes said something. I can even get behind the idea that Holmes is just a hairsbreadth from losing it sometimes because he just can't tune out things without something to focus on (i.e., a case). The predicting a fight several moves in advance? Eh, well-trained martial artists can 'read' opponents. Why not Holmes, too? Holmes the slob was a discordant note for me. He was said to be quite fastidious with his appearance when he had a choice. Watson having a sword cane? I can see him wielding a good heavy walking stick, and of course his old service revolver, but that seemed a bit much. Such a device would be a little more in keeping with Holmes, not the good doctor . And at the risk of Selina coming and whipping me within an inch of my life, then clawing two more centimeters out for good measure, I just wasn't feeling the choice of Irene. McAdams looked too young for a woman who might only be a few years younger than Holmes or Watson. The idea of her being similar to Holmes, heck that's canon. She had a gift for disguise and a very cunning mind. International jewel thief instead of opera singer, eh, neither here nor there. Still, the way she played Holmes bears a striking resemblance to how another thief could discombobulate (what a fun word ) a crimefighter... Hm, wonder what unexpectd branches make up Selina's family tree. Still all in all, a very good film, quite enjoyable even for a Holmes fan in one doesn't go in expecting Jeremy Brett or Basil Rathbone.
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Letomo		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 43 01/21/10 04:23	A few years ago, there was a "Joker World" storyline - What if Joker took over, sort of thing. This, however, strikes me as a much more dangerous Joker World. What if Crane figures out how to use his fear gas to make people into seeing Joker everywhere? Or, into being Joker?! Heh, if everyone else was insane for a day, would the Joker be sane for a day?
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Chris Dee		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1154 01/21/10 08:41	Hi all! I'm certainly thrilled by the response to DFTJ so far. Wanted to jump right into the fray and welcome RKemp to the forum. I think you nailed the recipe on Irene. It's a combination of wit, class, playful sexiness and mischieviousness that makes the her such a treat. Ben, I love the Jeremy Brett also. I was skeptical too. I don't say the current film is a definitive Holmes, but I wound up enjoying it much more than I expected. For anyone who doesn't care to see the movie, the relevant scenes are available in the other thread. OracleThunder, here too! It's like everybody said "Holidays over, what's next? Oh yeah, flu season." waves to Ichi and Stephensmat Some good Joker thoughts, guys. I'm not going to say too much about that yet. Letomo, you just reminded me of an old comic where Joker and Luthor decided to change places. Luthor couldn't stand the rose colored glasses, funhouse mirror view of the world. Joker couldn't stand reality. Was a very good read. Thanks again for the quick feedback, gang. Gotta fly this morning. More soon. -Chris Dee Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Superpowers corrupt... superbly. -Cat-Tales: Identity Element
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RKemp		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 01/21/10 13:29	Chris: Thank you very much ma'am, for both your courtesy and the excellent quality of this series. You've restored Selina to her proper place, and done Bruce justice. One of my favorite scenes is when Selina tries to remove the photo negatives that Joker took when he crippled Barbara, only to find that Bruce had already destroyed them. That act, along with many other scenes, shows that Bruce's hatred and malice towards the evil element of Gotham is derived from something nobler; he truly hates to see the innocent suffer, and he will stop it however he can. stephensmat2: I'm not so sure; we've rarely, if ever, seen Joker's atrocities on screen; we've only been exposed to the fallout and the character reactions. Granted, it's been a while since I've read the series, so I could be wrong. (He killed a Starbucks employee on his escape, but it was offscreen.) Lemoto: I don't know about that; Scarecrow's primary problem is the fact that Joker is the true rogue of fear here; why would Scarecrow want to use his newfound enemy to terrify others? He would be resigning himself to the fact that he will never be the most fearsome rogue in Gotham. I'm thinking that he could wean himself off the gas, honestly critique his failures and weaknesses, and make sure that it doesn't happen again. Of course, that would require a bit of introspection, which as Wanders Nowhere pointed out in "Capes and Bats", most rogues are too narcissistic to do. On the topic of Joker, I don't think we've seen him in the field since Amuse Bouche, which if I'm not mistaken, was published before the Dark Knight. I'm curious as to what effect that masterpiece could have on the Joker's portrayal, and if we will ever see his monstrous acts on screen. Yes, I've lurked for years.
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tm80401		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10 01/21/10 13:58	Excellent Timing!!!! I just saw Sherlock Holmes on Monday.
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Random Equinox		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 377 01/22/10 00:02	Huh. Definitely food for thought, right off the bat. I never thought of the new Sherlock Holmes movie that way, but you raise several good points of comparison, Chris. Now I'm curious to see that movie. The whole germophobe thing is quirky enough in most situations, but tying it to Scarecrow's latest nefarious plan, current concerns about swine flu/H1N1 and other diseases is quite awesome! As, of course, is Batman's quick investigative response and smackdown. Sometimes, you need to get out and grab some fresh air to get a new perspective on things. In Jonathan's case, he had to bail from his latest lair, frantically ditch his clothes, get mistaken for a homeless person, and digest the startling revelation that the "peons" of Gotham fear Joker. Not because of any chemicals. Because his random and homicidal tendencies are just plain freaky! So how is Jonathan going to "learn" from Joker? Interview? Firsthand observations? How will he persuade Joker to take him on as a student? What kind of interactions are we going to get between Joker and Scarecrow and Harley and Scarecrow? Can't wait!
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Chris Dee		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1154 01/22/10 09:25	Random! It's your 300th post. I wanted to find an appropriate ecard, but this is the best my quick google could come up with. Well, it's the thought that counts, right? Thanks for being a part of the forum. -Chris Dee Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Superpowers corrupt... superbly. -Cat-Tales: Identity Element
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RKemp		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 01/22/10 17:36	Random Equinox: I don't think that Scarecrow would be stupid enough to walk up to Joker and ask him how he's achieved his fearsome reputation. Joker might just show him why,via a first-hand demonstration. I think Scarecrow's going to have to rely on information gathered anywhere but directly from Joker, simply to preserve his (useless, selfish, sadistic, murderous, cowardly) life.
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BenRG		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 428 01/23/10 11:37	We are all coming up with spine-tingling possibilities about what Scarecrow will do now he has realised Joker has a nastier rep than him. However, what if we are all misunderstanding the key nature of the Rogue in question? Is he likely to take positive, aggressive action, or is he likely to sulk, obsess and, ultimately, do something passive-aggressive in an attempt to rectify the situation? I've come up with two options: 1) Scarecrow hijacks the city's television stations and puts on a 24/7 infomercial which is basically his whiny, self-obessed and self-pitying plea for a better reputation: "I mean... he's a clown! I'm a damn scarecrow! I'm meant to be scary whilst clowns are just meant to be... creepy! Let's look at this from a purely psychological point of view, hmm? I've got noted psychoanalyst Hugo Strange here to discuss the whole issue in more detail. Hugo. Welcome to the show..." Naturally, Jack and Harley cannot resist making an appearance to offer their counter-point. Bruce and Selina have to intervene before the body count reaches triple figures. 2) Scarecrow tries to reverse-engineer some fear toxin so that everyone subconsiciously cannot associate Joker with fear. Jack is initially puzzled but gets to like the fact that everyone laughs at his atrocities. This is the sort of response that he has been looking for from the beginning. Bruce and Selina have to intervene before the body count reaches triple figures. ~~~~ They call me BenRG* But... I don't know why... ~~~*~
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RKemp		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 01/23/10 19:15	BenRG: You raise a good point. In the past, Scarecrow's been mostly a joke, and not too many people change completely and grow some competence after one epiphany. It would be a bit of a let-down, though. I suppose we'll see what the future brings for the strawman of fear. Also, Scarecrow doesn't have only one source to look at; he can study past encounters with Bruce to try and learn his methods. After all, Bruce terrifies every criminal in Gotham - even Joker, who in Awkward Pauses, was horrified upon being told he would be shipped back to Gotham.
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SteelBlaidd		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 82 01/24/10 00:31	Dr. Craine's problem is the same one that a lot of academics and Wallstreet bankers have, he keeps mistaking the map for the territory. He knows an awful lot about the physical symptoms of fear and the things that people can be afraid of but not really a whole lot abut the psychology of fear. It's really hard to develop a visceral response to a Villain when you know the worst they are going to do to you is make you afraid of something. Additionaly as most of his victems never actualy come in contact with him in his Dress Uniform he doesn't really get associated with his work. Joker on the other hand always makes sure you know its him doing what ever it is he is doing, and what ever it is is usually lethal. On the new Holmes movie I direct your attention to this post over at Tor.com for some delightful links to some classic Holmesiana. I grew up watching Jeremy Brett play Holmes on PBS's Mystery, so I wasn't real sure about how this one was going to be. Unfortunately I will probably have to wait for the DVD. "If ever you find yor self looking down the wong end of an arrow. Hope that it's an evil man. a good man will kill you with hardly a word." - Sam Vimes
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Cat-Tales 60: Don't Fear the Joker

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