http://www.cinemablend.co...le-Superheroes-11455.html
I had to post it here to make sure other people besides me can see this article and reassure me that my brain didn't implode...

| Author | Comment | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
C Mage |
Female Superheroes |
Lead | ||
|
Caught this little gem while I was looking around...
http://www.cinemablend.co...le-Superheroes-11455.html I had to post it here to make sure other people besides me can see this article and reassure me that my brain didn't implode... |
||||
|
|
||||
Chris Dee |
#1 | |||
|
Well DUH! This belabored article comes down to the same kernel of obvious that inspired my joke that the best prank of '08 would have been switching the
trailers of Iron Man and Sex and the City, SatC audience gets The Spirit, and Iron Man audience gets Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.
And see how I made that point in a sentence without making anybody scratch their head wondering what a Rope of Silicon Thera Pitt might be?
--Chris Dee
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Superpowers corrupts - superbly. --Identity Element |
||||
|
|
||||
Coralskipper.dubthistheforum |
#2 | |||
|
Even though it's obvious, it still brings up an interesting question to me. It would be fascinating to study how men are portrayed in movies geared towards
women. Would it be in a way any self respecting male actually acts, or would it be the idealized male in the minds of women, I'd lean towards idealized.
Then if that is the case, could you not argue that it is as sexist, in its own way, as the male fantasy of the idealized female in superhero fiction? I
don't know, but it would be fun to study.
Damon Runyon once said, "Ninety-five percent of sports tradition is fiction. Lies, if you like. But harmless. Who the hell cares if the facts get
twisted?"
|
||||
|
|
||||
C Mage |
Female Superheroes | #3 | ||
|
I read this and wondered what was going on, myself. Does this guy think only guys read comics, or that girls don't want to be able to fight crime, kick
butt and take names? WAY overgeneralizing.
|
||||
|
|
||||
Coralskipper.dubthistheforum |
#4 | |||
|
I don't think it's that far, but rather rather that he's looking at the target audiences of each sort of genre. If I'm making a superhero film,
I'm thinking that men are the ones who are going to be the audience and will plan accordingly. If I'm making "Sex and the City", I'm
assuming women will be the main ones watching it. He's saying that you don't expect romantic comedies to cater towards men, so why would you expect
superhero films, or comics, to cater towards women by having more female superheroes. While overly simplistic, it does make sense.
Damon Runyon once said, "Ninety-five percent of sports tradition is fiction. Lies, if you like. But harmless. Who the hell cares if the facts get
twisted?"
|
||||
|
|
||||
Chris Dee |
#5 | |||
|
Skipper said it better. If we substitute a broader label like "Action movies" for "Superhero movies" maybe it won't clank so much:
there are more men in the audience for that kind of film. Doesn't mean some women don't like them, but I think most are aware they're not in the
majority. So for every Kill Bill with a female lead, there are 20 Die Hards.
And yes, it was a male audience driving Wonder Woman. For those not old enough to remember, the term was "Jiggle TV". It started with Three's Company and Charlie's Angels, and all of a sudden every network was pushing them up, I mean, er, out everywhere. (FWIW, I think the era officially ended with a collective agreement that the apex of absurdity had been reached when Raquel Welch was torturing Mork from Orc in a hot tub, seeing that his species had such a low tolerance for pleasure. No, I didn't make that up. Really. I know I veered way off the point, actually forgot what it was. Chalk it up to Monday.
--Chris Dee
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Superpowers corrupts - superbly. --Identity Element |
||||
|
|
||||
Clutterbuck |
#6 | |||
|
Quoting the original article: "even here in America you'll occasionally run into a guy with a twisted love of Mamma Mia!. " I would like to state
for the record that I am that guy (but only if the sing-along titles are turned on).
|
||||
|
|
||||
Clutterbuck |
#7 | |||
|
The comments are actually more interesting than the original article, especially when you get down to the ones by "Kristy" and "Lanta"
about the role of women in fandom.
|
||||
|
|
||||
Allaine |
#8 | |||
|
Do you get the idea, from reading the comments to this article, that the writer seems pretty determined to dismiss anything that could possibly seen as something that doesn't support his argument? (And anyone who would use My Super Ex-Girlfriend as an example of superhero flicks aimed at WOMEN clearly is not a very insightful person. That movie was aimed at giving validation to every guy who ever dated a girl, dumped her, and then claimed she was "crazy" when she didn't take it well.) Never mind that arguing Buffy wasn't a superhero program because it involved vampires is completely asinine. Uh, hello? Normal teenage girl suddenly imbued with superhuman powers? What are we missing here? (Kim Possible isn't a superhero show because it's a cartoon. It's not a superhero show because the main character has as much super powers as Batman does. Dismissing an animated show because it's a cartoon aimed at kids - like pretty much every other cartoon in America, including B:TAS - is really obnoxious.)
Sincerely, Allaine
![]() |
||||
|
|
||||
C Mage |
There is, of course, another justification... | #9 | ||
|
||||
|
|
||||
BenRG |
#10 | |||
|
C Mage... you win the Internet for that motivation poster. Yes, Dinah, Cassie and Helena probably do turn many lonely men to crime. I think
that I understand a lot of the D-list and lower Rogues better now.
Of course, you have to wonder a lot about the sanity of a man who wants a hot babe in skintight body armour to come along, kick his butt and leave him trussed up suspended over the door to police headquarters on a titanium carbide zipline. It's cheaper than paying for it, I guess. Ask Max Mosely! ~*~*~*~
They call me BenRG But... I don't know why... ~*~*~*~
Last Edited By: BenRG 01/21/09 13:27.
Edited 1 time.
|
||||
|
|
||||
Coralskipper.dubthistheforum |
#11 | |||
|
In Watchmen there is that story about the guy that dressed up to commit crimes, solely so he could get beat up by the costumed heroes, and that's only
touching on the costume fetish in that story.
Damon Runyon once said, "Ninety-five percent of sports tradition is fiction. Lies, if you like. But harmless. Who the hell cares if the facts get
twisted?"
|
||||
|
|
||||
DorothyTRose |
#12 | |||
|
Just putting my two-cents in as I catch up on the board...
First off, I realise that I am probably an anomaly, but TDK is my top-favourite film. Just in case anyone has forgotten, this movie has a ton of action and grit and not really a lot of romance, since Rachel is involved in a love-triangle that goes NOWHERE until she dies. Ha! Also, I really really like the Terminator movies, the Die Hard movies, the Mission Impossible movies.... And I don't like Kill Bill. It made me stupid! Neither do I like Julia Roberts or any of her feminist romances. For that matter, I can count all the romance movies that I like on one hand and still have fingers to spare. A Walk to Remember, Save the Last Dance, and Ten Things I Hate about You. So, yah. I'm sure this comic-collecting (devouring?) female is a true minority, but I'll take a kick-ass action movie over a sappy romance ANY day! Thankyouverymuch. Cats rule.
|
||||
|
|
||||
Janshi.gothampm |
#13 | |||
|
After going through a SHIT-LOAD of feminist comments in my mind-bending torture that was reading a crazy woman's "reply" to Firefly, I can say
quite definitively that Julia Roberts movies are not, in fact, feminist. I would say something about how they are influenced by male-patriarchal forces in
society plus the noxiously inbred industry itself but 1) I'm sure real feminists will crucify my male ass and 2) it hurts so bad. I had to get it out
somehow. Anyway, the man is a fool. It's not only we need MORE woman superheroes, we need BETTER ones. I really used to dislike Wonder Woman, you know. No
doubt influenced by Chris's work
Maybe it was because I'm a guy, but I put it more to the fact that she seemed so...amorphous. There was nothing
concrete about her like Batman or Spiderman, nothing so definitive that you could capture her essence in. Bluefall of scans_daily fame changed my mind around,
but it took many, many pages of WW and commentary before I learned of the possibilities presented by WW. Look at the current crop of woman superheroines. They
just tend to be bland bland bland. I mean, DC just threw a new Batwoman whose sole purpose is to give DC lesbian cred! I... I don't have the heart to even
say anything. Just, give us interesting superheroines. Also, stop fridging characters, male and female. It pisses me off.
|
||||
|
|
||||
JabberwockyPie |
#14 | |||
|
That's the kind of article that makes me start twitching and makes me go incoherent with rage. Then I type a scathing response. Then I wisely close out of
the window and take a few deep breaths and make a note of the author's name just in case I ever DO take over the world.
|
||||
|
|
||||
Coralskipper.dubthistheforum |
#15 | |||
|
Again, though, would you be asking for movies such as the "Sex and the City" to star guys? The basic audience is for women in this case, and thus it
should star women. That is not to say that a truly great movie such as "The Devil Wears Prada" cannot appeal to men, which it did, but to have such a
film star a man when they are clearly not the target audience.
The inverse of that is his basic argument, and, just like "The Devil Wears Prada", "The Dark Knight" and "Iron Man" were both good enough films to appeal to women. That doesn't mean that they are the primary audience for such films. As for Wonder Woman, bondage fetishes aside, it was progressive at the time. Certainly she had to appeal to men, but there is a reason that she's a feminist icon. She can kick just about anyone's butt, and did get into great adventures in a time period where women were expected to stay at home, or maybe help the war effort by working in a factory. Certainly they weren't supposed to be out there beating up bad guys, with the guys.
Damon Runyon once said, "Ninety-five percent of sports tradition is fiction. Lies, if you like. But harmless. Who the hell cares if the facts get
twisted?"
|
||||
|
|
||||
JoannaC |
#16 | |||
|
Unfortunately, the bondage fetish was there. I mean seriously, at one point it was canon that Amazons lost their power if tied up by men.
Wonder Woman can be a feminist icon, but she can also come off as a textbook example of taking it too far. That said, when I was five years old, I wanted to play with my neighbor's toy cars and he wanted to pay with my barbies. So yeah, I've always been fond of a good shoot 'em up. And really there aren't any female heroes I really like. Wonder Woman annoys the hell out of me; Likewise, Canary; even Babs rubs me the wrong way. These top female heroes are still ultra-feminine; not all women are like that! Are there any of the top female heroes (besides Cassie) who like Dorothy and I would rather watch Die Hard 4 than The Notebook. |
||||
|
|
||||
Chris Dee |
#17 | |||
|
Good point, Joanna. Comic books have always done a fair amount of serving (or at least tickling) fetishy itches, and now that we're all agreed they are an
adult's medium as much as a children's one, there isn't anything really wrong with that. As long as the proper titles are directed at the proper
audience, it's fine.
I think they get into the most trouble when the hypocrisy kicks in: when they start pretending there ISN'T a bondage fetish, or that men DON'T like looking at big bouncy breasts, or that degrading a woman's icon actually empowers them. That's where their credibility goes down the toilet with all but the terminally gullible. The fact is, comic books have not evolved past "Quiet or Papa spank" while the rest of the world HAS, and their attempts to appear enlightened about women come off like the 70s sitcoms making a production of the black guy who was a lawyer and not a janitor. It's your father showing up at the prom, dancing "like all you kids do today". It is embarrassing. And it may well kill the medium eventually. The conflict comes when this awkwardly locked in the past medium meets a mainstream one like the movies. Hollywood may have its flaws, but it has to be living in the present with the rest of us, not in an arrested adolescent mindset circa 1952. There it is pretty simple: more men see action movies than women. Can you have women starring solo in an action film? Yep: Kill Bill. Are here 10 Die Hards and Terminators for every Kill Bill? Yep. Is there anything wrong with that? Nope. That's the end of the hollywood conversation. All of the superhero-specific and quasi-feminist pontificating is completely off-point in terms of making movies. There, it is very simple: is this likely to make money? Based on what has succeeded and failed in the past, is it likely to MAKE MONEY? Will enough people want to pay to see it that we get our $100,000,000 back? Come on, everyone, a little honesty. Check all the knee-jerk talk show responses, and just think about that honestly: if you were going to put $100 million of YOUR MONEY into a project, wouldn't your principle concern be whether or not you would ever see it again?
--Chris Dee
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Superpowers corrupts - superbly. --Identity Element |
||||
|
|
||||
JoannaC |
Art for the Artists Sake | #18 | ||
|
Absolutely. As one of the gazillions who goes and sees all the male-lead action movies and watches mostly male-lead tv shows. They're awesome. It just
irritates me that of all the kick-ass women; movie, tv, and comics alike: the sum and total of tomboys are next to none. Most of the female superheroes turn
into complete girly girls once they take the costume off.
On a side note, have we used the word heroines once in this thread? |
||||
|
|
||||
ScottyQuick |
#19 | |||
Chris Dee wrote: Oh, definitely. But the thing is, this guy seems to be saying that movies starring female superheroes are doomed to failure. TV shows like Kim Possible, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Alias have shown that shows can star kickass women and suceed, you just have to make them not suck. He's saying "Quit trying to force-feed women what they want", which fails on so many levels it's hilarious (y'all are a hive mind and I'm going to mansplain it for you!). He's also changing his mind that oh, no, TDK isn't a superhero movie, Kim Possible isn't a superheroic cartoon, Buffy isn't/wasn't a success, so my guess is he's a troll (and a sexist het-normative one at that!). By the way, I'm Scotty. This was the first thread I clicked on, by a random chance, and then you guys link to an article that I hated and commented on! I started reading Cat Tales at school, and I love them more then most canon. |
||||
|
|
||||